Turbocharger upgrade

[speedy300dturbo]

Hello all,

I was wondering about upgrading the small stock turbo to something larger (although I have no immediate plans for that, I am still curious!)

If I am aiming for 200-250hp, is it really necessary to have a huge Holset HX40? What other turbochargers do you recommend as a good upgrade from the stock turbo? Understandably, a new exhaust manifold needs to be made, but are there smaller Holsets that work well for these applications?

Hopefully the smaller Holsets use the same exhaust flange as the HX40, so if we want to make a 400hp Superturbo, we don't need to re-do the exhaust manifold...

[Mauri H.]

Hi,

Yes, smaller turbo can be used if you only need 200-250 hp.

Maybe Holset H1D/E or Schwitzer S2B/G should be considered. With 50 - 54 mm compressor and 55-60 mm turbine would be good.

Turbos sized 54/60 has been used in setups up to around 400 hp. HX40 is more suitable with those hp:s because it's compressors bigger size reduces exhaust pressure. But you can still use smaller ones if you measure the temperatures and pressure from the exhaust.

There is no really one formula to do superturbos, lots of things have to be made by trying and learning We use HX40:s because they are cheap to buy and they work well, some other turbo possibly work better, but you have to try them first to know what kind should it be.

Unfortunatelly those smaller turbos often has smaller flanges that bigger ones, like HX40.

[speedy300dturbo]

Do you think that the stock turbo is too small and creates too much exhaust pressure for 200-250bhp?

By the way, how much are HX40's in Finland? They are popular in the US among the Dodge Ram Cummins turbo diesel tuners, and I've seen them selling for around $600-$1000 US dollars...

Say, maybe AMG Dave and I should fly over there and bring back some modified pumps, turbos, and exhaust manifolds in our suitcases.

[Mauri H.]

Do you think that the stock turbo is too small and creates too much exhaust pressure for 200-250bhp?

By the way, how much are HX40's in Finland? They are popular in the US among the Dodge Ram Cummins turbo diesel tuners, and I've seen them selling for around $600-$1000 US dollars...

Say, maybe AMG Dave and I should fly over there and bring back some modified pumps, turbos, and exhaust manifolds in our suitcases.

Stock turbo is too tiny for everything after 180-200 hp.

HX40:s can be bought from here with around 700 €, that's around 1000 $, that is cheap turbo.

Well, modified pumps and exhaust manifolds I can deliver if you need

[AMG Dave]

Interesting! Is there any turbo that will bolt on to the stock manifolds, that would be good up to about 250hp? I think the smaller intercoolers we plan to use won't support much over 250hp anyway, which would be *plenty* of power for me, for now. I don't have the tools or skills to weld and fabricate custom exhausts, etc so I'd prefer to leave as much stock as possible.

On a side note, have any of you seen a timing cover failure like this? I'll be spending the next 2 months fixing that (and doing some other work). A couple other people had the identical failure on their 1987 engines too.

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[mygreen300d]

Hey all, I am trying to build a superdiesel, and I plan on gettting an HX-40, but what ic should i get, and how can i get the fuel pump the way i need it? I saw someone had a custom header, do i need that? can my exhaust shop make it? What else do I need? Thanks, I know about these engines, but I dont know much about what I should do. How does one go about strengthening a tranny? will a tranny shop do it? or could my trusted german mechanic do it? I know these are a lot, but i have seen pics of yours, Maurie, and I love your car. I would love my '87 to put out as much power, maybe a little less tho so it could be more streetable as far as milege.

[speedy300dturbo]

Hey all, I am trying to build a superdiesel, and I plan on gettting an HX-40, but what ic should i get, and how can i get the fuel pump the way i need it? I saw someone had a custom header, do i need that? can my exhaust shop make it? What else do I need? Thanks, I know about these engines, but I dont know much about what I should do. How does one go about strengthening a tranny? will a tranny shop do it? or could my trusted german mechanic do it? I know these are a lot, but i have seen pics of yours, Maurie, and I love your car. I would love my '87 to put out as much power, maybe a little less tho so it could be more streetable as far as milege.

1. You'll need a good IC, preferably a custom made one from a good turbo shop that deals with serious boosted cars - Supras, etc.

2. Send the pump to Mynä-Diesel in Finland. They know the secrets of these pumps and provide special upgraded pump elements.

3. You'll need a custom header. Ask your local exhaust shop.

4. Not sure about strenghtening the tranny, but I recall hearing someone swapping on some parts from a W140 600SEL.

[Mauri H.]

4. Not sure about strenghtening the tranny, but I recall hearing someone swapping on some parts from a W140 600SEL.

Well, I and some others drive with 722.3 - tranny, it is the same automatic which was used in 300E-600 SEL, also on 300 turbodiesel. 250 turbodiesel had weaker 722.4 tranny.

722.3:s has been fortified by my friend Jarkko Siekkinen, Jarkko made them even more powerfull than the ones used in 600 SEL and they keep easily up with these engines.

[speedy300dturbo]

It's good to know that the stock 722.3 automatic transmission can handle the power increase.

But won't the stock diffential will break if you do too many 1-wheel burnouts?

[AMG Dave]

Yup - at least that's what happened to the guy with the Bornit (Wineberry) sedan on the other thread. The 185mm (?) diff is too weak, IMO, but seems to last a surprisingly long time. Swapping to the 210mm (?) diff is easy enough and fairly inexpensive, unless you want limited-slip, then it can get pricey. Since I expect to remain in the sub-250hp range, I'll be swapping to a 2.87 limited slip of the small 185mm variety. If/when that explodes, then I'd need to upgrade to the larger 2.82 diff from the 500E, etc.

[Mauri H.]

Well, in stock condition, 722.3 taken from 300 turbodiesel or 300 E won't last for too long, if you use more than 400 Nm.

But that tranny can be fortified to last enormous powers.

Stock diff can handle much, and the only ones broken have given up because of big speed difference between rear wheels. ASD diff has never broken, not even my 440 000 km driven one that has been making loud noise for at least last 80 000 km.

If you avoid stupid use, the stock diff is enough. I'm only afraid braking it at strip with slicks, not with 225/45 street tires.

[mygreen300d]

Thanks, Is there any particular brand IC? Or can I get one custom made for a reasonable price? Anyone know what is involved in strengthening a tranny? Sending the injector pump to finland, sending a tranny is quite another. I am really seriousl about building around 350-400HP superdiesel. Thanks

-Steve

[AMG Dave]

Having the tranny beefed up is not a problem in the USA. There is a tranny specialist in central California (SF Bay area) that can do anything you need. The tranny is easy, it just takes money, that's all. I think you would be wise to have the pump modified in Finland though. For an intercooler, you will need to determine you mounting location on the car, inlet/outlet positions, dimensions, etc and then most likely have one custom made. There are companies in the USA that specialize in this.

For 400hp though, be prepared to relocate your radiator & AC condenser, or remove the AC entirely (which would be easier). Remember that Finland is at the same latitude as Alaska, and if you expect to drive the car in SoCal or something, cooling system capacity, airflow, etc all becomes a much bigger deal. That's partially why I want to stick with a bumper-mount intercooler, which will probably limit me to under 300hp, but not interfere with the stock radiator and condenser mounting or fans.

[Mauri H.]

Well, Dave said it all

If you make big changes to front bumper clamps (or buy bigger one, for excample AMG bumper) you can mount reasonable big cooler there.

Make sure your cooler is ribbed inside, othervise it is not effective. Here is a picture how it should look:



If the cooler is made of good material and by skilled person, it doesn't really have to be that big, this is my old cooler, which still was enough for 400 hp, never had problems:



It was only 10 inches high, width is 23 inches including ends.

[AMG Dave]

Neat photos, Mauri! Wow, the internal fins on your cooler are amazing. I wonder if we can get something like that in the USA. Perhaps a high-efficiency cooler like that (as large as possible) mounted below the bumper, would support 400hp. Your "old" cooler had 230 square inches of surface area. I think the most that will fit below the bumper is about 30" x 6", which is 180 square inches, but could perhaps be a little thicker. Bumper modifications are required but we already expected that.

Mauri, what does a cooler like yours cost? Are those custom made coolers, or "off the shelf" universal types?

[Mauri H.]

These are custom made, I suppose cooler like this will cost around 500-700 €.

[mygreen300d]

Thanks for the info all... I actaully have thought about getting rid of the AC since it doesnt work anyways. So removing the AC will not be a problem. Is there a way I can keep the AC, in case I want it fixed? I live in the bay area, and I im interested in this person you are speaking about, Dave. Also, who can make me an IC? Thanks again

-Steve

[AMG Dave]

If you want to keep the AC, you'll need to relocate the condenser and radiator back a couple of inches, like in the photo above of Mauri's car. I'm not sure exactly what he did for cooling fans though.

About the tranny specialist in the Bay area, I'll look up the name of the company and post it here for you. I just remember they were pretty highly recommended.

[speedy300dturbo]

Racetune in Hayward, California works with some pretty serious turbo'ed cars, and can make custom manifolds, intercoolers, etc. However, they aren't cheap.

http://www.racetune.net

Mauri, what are the disadvantages of an intercooler that doesn't have a ribbed core? I suppose it doesn't cool the air as well, so we need a bigger size to achieve the same cooling effect as a ribbed one? Most of the ones I see on eBay are like below:

[Mauri H.]

Racetune in Hayward, California works with some pretty serious turbo'ed cars, and can make custom manifolds, intercoolers, etc. However, they aren't cheap.

http://www.racetune.net

Mauri, what are the disadvantages of an intercooler that doesn't have a ribbed core? I suppose it doesn't cool the air as well, so we need a bigger size to achieve the same cooling effect as a ribbed one? Most of the ones I see on eBay are like below:

[ http://vecco.net/jason/cooler4.JPG ]

Well, the cooler in the picture seems ok. The ribbs will transport the heat out of the air far more effectively compared to smooth pipe, as there is more surface. The difference in efficiency between ribbed and smooth cooler is very big.

If you still want to keep your AC, you have to move radiator and AC condenser back, In my first version (picture in my previous post) I just moved the original clamps by making them longer.

Now in my latest version I cut the original ones totally off and constructed new ones from Stainless steel. There is no room for original fan, and so I have light "propeller" from electric fan attached to water pump.

Here is few pictures:



In front of the cooler I can put two 10 inch electric fans, they are not there because of winter, but last summer I had them there.

Here you can see a free space between radiator and cooler, AC condencer is not there as I have to change it a little first to make it fit better.

[mygreen300d]

I know it has been a while but I was caught up in some other stuff for a long time. Dave, have you gotten a name of that place in the central valley? thanks a lot man

[mygreen300d]

Also, has anyone ever put a propane injection system on their W124? I have looked into this, but havent found much information about it.