Max output from 2003 W211 e220

[kevtan]

Hello guys, what are the maximum output expected from a 646 assuming that the intercooler are made bigger to handle the heat?

AMG spec injectors paired with

GT2256 turbo from a 647 w211 e270 cdi3
From posts written by tuikku it seems that the GT2256 will spool up faster and 'may' over torque the gearbox, but it is a direct drop in replacement for the original turbo.

and

GT2359 turbo from 320 cdi?
Same output as original turbo low end but better flow above 2500rpm?? But it is not a direct drop in and needs a lot of work to fit???

Also what are the pros and cons of using the bigger and smaller turbo?

[tuikku]

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From a constant 646 -> ~200hp.

No sense to change injectors, if you still have the orig. turbo.
First cooler, turbo and map-sensor.
From almost all of these streight-line-engines original injectors, it is possible to have ~50hp/cyl, if charger and cooler are suitable for that.

It is not easy, but it is possible to make bigger turbo work "like orig."
Bigger injectors helps that, of cource.

[kevtan]

.
From a constant 646 -> ~200hp.

No sense to change injectors, if you still have the orig. turbo.
First cooler, turbo and map-sensor.
From almost all of these streight-line-engines original injectors, it is possible to have ~50hp/cyl, if charger and cooler are suitable for that.

It is not easy, but it is possible to make bigger turbo work "like orig."
Bigger injectors helps that, of cource.

tuikku,

thank you for your advise. I am going along as the parts are being sourced and fitted as time allows. The 2359 is in hand and is awaiting modification and fitment. The cooler is also waiting to be made and fitted.

The only thing missing now is the map sensor. I will very much appreciate it if you could supply the part number and how it is fitted.

The car has been fitted with the AMG nozzle injectors because the previous owner bought and installed reconditioned injectors that are not calibrated. The old injectors are now fitted with AMG nozzles and calibrated to AMG specification and it is smoking but not very bad. The power is nicer and the engine does not shake as bad as when the injectors were out of sync. It is either to fit the original nozzles or the AMG and they cost the same so I choose the AMG .

To keep the car running the next step is to fit the cooler. The turbo will be the last as the car might not run after. Would I need to reprogram after fitting the 2359 just to get the car running? Can the car still run without the reprogram after fitting the 2359?

[tuikku]

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Which car do you mean now, 220 or 270, I don´t understand ?

Putting 2359 to four- or fivecyl. engines is not just plug and play- job, any more.
In elect. controlled charger, comperessor housing is in wrong direction, it must be taken from older, vacuum-conrolled charger.
I am personally using that older version where I had build a "bed" for that controller, look the pics from my thread, every times, same controller.

To get the full advantage from AMG-injectors, without awful smoke, quite a lot and right changes must be done in program.
I have repaired many of these, also.
It is not any rocket science, but anyway, had to know something about working principals ...

It is impossible to say, how the 2359 plays in your cars.
But in the "beginnig", 2359 works just fine in my 200cdi with AMG,s, without any mod in program - so it is possible, even like that, but need some work and to understand, how it works.
Reprogramming helps a lot.
In fackt, it is not so difficult to have the bigger charger play like orig.

3bar map: A006 153 9928
BUT !
It won´t work, until it is adapted in the program, right.

[kevtan]

Which car do you mean now, 220 or 270, I don´t understand ?

There are two cars, a w211 220cdi manual 6 speed and a w211 270cdi auto 5 speed.

In this tread we are discussing the 220 manual.

Putting 2359 to four- or fivecyl. engines is not just plug and play- job, any more.
In elect. controlled charger, comperessor housing is in wrong direction, it must be taken from older, vacuum-conrolled charger.
I am personally using that older version where I had build a "bed" for that controller, look the pics from my thread, every times, same controller.

The 2359 has electronic control from a s320cdi which I got in used condition for 200 euro - do not know if the electronic control is the same for the 220, 270 and the 320?? If they are the same can I just make the air outlet turn to the correct position along with the bed for the controller? I will print out the pictures from your turbo and ask the turbo shop to do the same. Will post pictures when it is done.

To get the full advantage from AMG-injectors, without awful smoke, quite a lot and right changes must be done in program.
I have repaired many of these, also.
It is not any rocket science, but anyway, had to know something about working principals ...

This is the part that I need help in. Basic principle of diesel commonrail is pressure (1600bar ) and spray tiime along with the nozzle size. Too long spray time and the piston and valve along with turbo melts. Reading thru your posts i think the fuelling needs to be lessen by 15% or more from idle to 4500rpm with minor variations along the line. Will pm you about this matter.

It is impossible to say, how the 2359 plays in your cars.
But in the "beginnig", 2359 works just fine in my 200cdi with AMG,s, without any mod in program - so it is possible, even like that, but need some work and to understand, how it works.
Reprogramming helps a lot.
In fackt, it is not so difficult to have the bigger charger play like orig.

With this information the car will get the cooler, 3 inch (45mm) exhaust then the 2359 modified to the correct position.

3bar map: A006 153 9928
BUT !
It won´t work, until it is adapted in the program, right.

Just called up the parts shop got news that they are available for 50 euro. This will come last as the car gets built. Going from your experience this should be the most difficult part.

Thank you for your guidance.

[kevtan]

Sent the 2359 turbo to the turbo shop and found out that the outlet and position points the wrong way!!!!

After going thru tuikku's posts again, finally understand that the outlet housing from the older vacuum controlled turbo is needed to complete the transformation of the 2359 to work in the 646 and 647. Is this true tuikku?

If so will ask if the turbo shop has the outlet housing from the vacuum turbo and ask them to install.

[kevtan]

Putting 2359 to four- or fivecyl. engines is not just plug and play- job, any more.
In elect. controlled charger, comperessor housing is in wrong direction, it must be taken from older, vacuum-conrolled charger.
I am personally using that older version where I had build a "bed" for that controller, look the pics from my thread, every times, same controller.

Finally understand your advice regarding using the older vacuum turbo housing.

3bar map: A006 153 9928
BUT !
It won´t work, until it is adapted in the program, right.

Is this a absolute 3 bar sensor ( giving 2bar boost) or a 3 bar boost sensor?

Yesterday the shop that is doing the intercooler did a dyno run using a dynojet. He could not get the rpm signal to register. He siad the 220 gave nearly 160hp on wheel but without the rpm could not get the torque reading?? Am heading there to collect the 220 and will get a jpg of the dyno rub to post here later.

The modifications done so far are
1. the gutted egr mixer duct,
2. 3" 75mm turbo back exhaust with mid expansion chamber and mid bullet silencer 'y' to 2x 2.5" (63mm) outlet below the rear bumper and
3. AMG injectors.

Could anyone here please advise on how to get the rpm to read in the dynojet??

[CDI203]

Is this a absolute 3 bar sensor ( giving 2bar boost) or a 3 bar boost sensor?

3bar sensor give sens use 2bar boost (absolute pressure 1+2bar boost =3bar)

[tuikku]

.
4bar map: A007 153 0028.

[LOB]

.

3bar map: A006 153 9928
BUT !
It won´t work, until it is adapted in the program, right.

Hi,

I already buy a map sensor with this #, now need help to adapt the program. Somebody can help me?