Bulding a om603 tips

[Tito]

Hi there!

Little introduction, i'm rico i'm 21 years old. Working as an mechanic in a local garage. I currently own a audi v8 4.2 nice car but i really love mercedes. And especialy the finnisch superturbo's

So i've made the decision to build one. I know i can build it myself. I have he knowledge an space to build one. But i need some help from the experts.

First question, can i use a n/a engine to covert it to an turbo engine? Whats the difference? There plenty om603 n/a avalable here. I know i probaly must fit oil jets to cool the pistons.

What the best option with the gearbox? Automatic are quiet strong i believe (stock) but could an stickshift and clutch hold up? Or should it be reïnforced?

Big issue is the pump. I've done some research to pumps. I want 7.0/7.5 mm plungers. I will be fitting them myself. Is there some webshop out there where i can buy them? I've read about firad plungers?
Whats the difference between a M pump and an MW pump? Wich one will i need? How about the adjustment? Whats the alda screw and what setup or adjustment will the rest of the pump need?

If i can't adjust it i'll take it to a friend who works at an bosch diesel service point. But i wana give it a try myself.

It wil be a little budget project, but if it all works out good then i'm going to scale the budget up.

I'll be fitting an hx40 and want about 250 horsepower. Any tips are also be appreciated. I understand english but not very good in an technical way.

Thanks and greetings from holland

[veskola]

First question, can i use a n/a engine to covert it to an turbo engine? Whats the difference? There plenty om603 n/a available here. I know i probably must fit oil jets to cool the pistons.

There is difference mainly in pistons, rods and bearings. It is not recommended to use non turbo engines because real turbo-engines are available for reasonable prices in the case of 5 (OM602) and 6 cylinders (OM603). Anyhow it is doable, i have personally made needed changes just because there is not available 4 cylinder turbo engines (OM601). There is difference in the block and therefore it is really difficult to instal those oil jets for pistons. Enclosed you can find some pictures to consider if you really want to try this out.

http://www.nic.fi/~danes/w638_2/jutut/pic/p0427.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Drilled holes for the oil jets
http://www.nic.fi/~danes/w638_2/jutut/pic/p0449.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.nic.fi/~danes/w638_2/jutut/pic/p0450.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.nic.fi/~danes/w638_2/jutut/pic/p0451.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turbo piston have that hole and oil jets should be positioned really carefully. Oil is injected inside piston and it flows to the piston neck because in turbo rods there is not drilled hole inside rod which force oil there. Wheel of oil pump should also be changed to the version of turbo engine to increase the capacity, that's the most easy issue.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/~w459531/w638_2/pic/p0783.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is some pictures of the latest OM601 turbo made by me.

http://www.autofoorumi.fi/forum/viewtop ... 75#p396375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.autofoorumi.fi/forum/viewtop ... 87#p155887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oil jets used on my case was made by VAG (VW transporter 2,5 turbo), but you actually should consider to use oil jets of OM606 (orOM605).

Actually consider to replace the whole engine to be OM606 turbo..that's the easiest way to go


In the case of budget project typically we forget those oil jets and turbo pistons and rods. Instead we just replace the rod bearings taken from turbo engine and we drill one hole for the oil to flown from crank to rod. Oli- and intercooler is must have and then we just hope it will not explode .

[Tito]

Thnx for the info!

Nice engine you have there! I think i'm going with buying a n/a om603, built the engine. See if I can get it to run good and in the meanwhile look for a turbo om603. Converting to turbo is to much work for me. And probally cost more than a off-the-shelf turbo engine.

And n/a engine's are for sale for about 200/400 euro's here so that won't blow the budget.

Anyone can help me with the pump? Would be great!

[nj^]

It might be cheaper to make from non-turbo engine, but i think that with time, its going to cost more. Just because there is no cooling with oil for pistons, the rods and pistons are bit different etc..

[Forced_Induction]

I'll be fitting an hx40 and want about 250 horsepower.

An HX40 is massively too big for only 250hp. An HX35 will support more than 250hp and will spool up FAR faster than an hx40.

[Tito]

Ok maybe i'll just get a hx40. Those are plenty avalable. And i can get some more hp. 300 hp? Thats faily common with 7mm and a hx40 i think. I actually got a scrap w124 and took the pump appart. Its fairly easy and after some studying i now know how the thing works. But i now need the 7mm elements. Anyone got an bosch number of those things? Or should i contact mÿna diesel/dieselmeken/dpp to deliver me the elements?

Thanks in advance. If someone is intrested in a turtorial i'm willing to make one. But you will need to see a bosch diesel servicepoint for adjusting the pump. I know some guys who work at different shops. I'll ask them if they can help me

[Forced_Induction]

An HX40 will be very slow to spool up, so normal driving will be poor from the bad torque.

[Tito]

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7640 ... 111967.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone who knows how to undo the governer bolt thingy? Its the only thing left to come off. I recently did not do anything to the pump but things are looking great! I actually had a training in dieselsystems from school and I asked them if they can deliver me the bigger elements. Maybe i'll send the pump to them to for calibrating. They seem like real pro's. For the intrested one it is diesel buchli. They are located in hardewijk netherlands and they are dealer (?) of 7 diesel systems. Some i've never heard of before

[Siekkinen]

Dont take that thing (I dont know english word for it ) off from camshaft. Just knock whole camshaft out with hammer. Put something between hammer and camshaft to keep it unharmed when you hit it. Hit from front side of the pump. If you take that thing off the shaft, you can't adjust injection timing normally. Timing mark is on that thing. I hope you ment that when you asked how to undo governor bolt thingy you need injection pump adjusting bench to make adjusts after changed elements. You must adjust same amount of fuel to every cylinder.

Its pretty hard to write in english when its really needed. Just say if you dont understand anything

[Tito]

Hey thnx i understand. But there are 4 torx bolts behind it. Those are loose now, but i've given it a few gentle taps with a hammer on the sprocket side of the camshaft. It didn't come off. But i give it a try later again.

Oh and i am happy to say i'm going to see a w123 station tommorow. That will be the car where the engine goes. I think has already no engine mounted. Its a fair price so i'm happy.

And are these the elements that mount in the pump?
http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info ... ts_id=3271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then i'll order them and i can build the pump back together and sent it to my buddy who runs a bosch diesel shop.

[Siekkinen]

Hey thnx i understand. But there are 4 torx bolts behind it. Those are loose now, but i've given it a few gentle taps with a hammer on the sprocket side of the camshaft. It didn't come off. But i give it a try later again.

Oh and i am happy to say i'm going to see a w123 station tommorow. That will be the car where the engine goes. I think has already no engine mounted. Its a fair price so i'm happy.

And are these the elements that mount in the pump?
http://www.dieselkontor.de/product_info ... ts_id=3271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then i'll order them and i can build the pump back together and sent it to my buddy who runs a bosch diesel shop.

Those are exactly right elements. Did you lock element lifters up before you tryed to knock the camshaft out? I mean those things between elements and camshaft. You can use tiny screwdrivers or you can buy real tool for locking. Did you already take the fuel liftpump off? Then it should come out with few taps.

[Tito]

Ahh thnx dude. I've noticed little holes in the lifters. That will probally be the holes to pin the screwdrives or little pins in. Now that i'm close to buying a car and i look at those youtube movies it gets me really motivated and excited.

Siekkinen, you owe me a beer

[Siekkinen]

Holes really are for that. Make sure that you have right sized tools to lock the lifters because its really annoying when they dont stay up and you have to put them back again and again and same time you have to push camshaft in when you get them locked try to knock cam off with rubber-headed hammer. It needs few harder hits before it begins to move. Just make sure that you dont damage camshafts head.

Have you seen video of the finnish dirft car which is w123 station diesel? If you havent write black smoke racing to youtube and watch

Ask more if you still cant get the elements changed.

[Tito]

It worked. I got the elements out! I'll order the elements right away in that german webshop.

The w123 station with the scania turbo was the reason why I wanted to build a car like that. It was the first superturbo video of a merc i ever saw. And after i've heard how easy it was I became more excited. Actually my boss owns a 1000 hp tractor (it's awesome, it has a 12 cylinder diesel pomp on a 6 cyl engine with custom camshaft, 15mm elements I think and a hx80 turbo at 4.5 bar boost). But i was never really intrested in that.

Many thanks for the help the next problems i'll be running in will be the 6 cyl engine fitting in the w123. But a good old welder and some calculating will do the trick

[Siekkinen]

It worked. I got the elements out! I'll order the elements right away in that german webshop.

The w123 station with the scania turbo was the reason why I wanted to build a car like that. It was the first superturbo video of a merc i ever saw. And after i've heard how easy it was I became more excited. Actually my boss owns a 1000 hp tractor (it's awesome, it has a 12 cylinder diesel pomp on a 6 cyl engine with custom camshaft, 15mm elements I think and a hx80 turbo at 4.5 bar boost). But i was never really intrested in that.

Many thanks for the help the next problems i'll be running in will be the 6 cyl engine fitting in the w123. But a good old welder and some calculating will do the trick

Most powerful diesel mercedes that i know in finland is w201 with om606. Couple weeks ago cars owner sent here dynovideo which proofs 700 horsepower and 1250 newtonmeters it could be more but car runs out fuel even its builded with mynädiesel's pump with 8mm elements.

It shouldnt be big problem to fit 6 cylinder engine to w123. I've seen couple w123 with om603 and om606.

[Tito]

wow, 700 hp.... nice... do you have a link of that video?

I don't expect any major problems fitting the engine, i've found more video/pictures of people making the 6 cil diesel swap. Personaly i like fitting thinks that don't fit Working in a pump is a lot harder for me because of the little tiny parts.

some pic's:








this is the car I purchased

[Siekkinen]

Here is link to the dynovideo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7tywICL ... r_embedded" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Your pump is not from turboengine i thought it was well, that doesnt really matter. Only more smoke and diesel consumption that w123 looks very nice and original from outside.

[Tito]

Yes is actually a non turbo pump, but i don't mind some smoking. I've bought it seperatly

The mercedes is all original. The interriour look nice aswel. A small hole in the driversseat is the only thing. I thougt he said that he wanted to keep the alloy wheels, but that's ok. I got some nice rims from the scrap w124.

But what about the exaust? I've red about a 7inch downpipe? And the rest of the pipe?

Got some problems with the dieselshop. But i've contacted them. And i found a turbo on ebay but how do i regonise a fake chinese one?

[Siekkinen]

Yes is actually a non turbo pump, but i don't mind some smoking. I've bought it seperatly

The mercedes is all original. The interriour look nice aswel. A small hole in the driversseat is the only thing. I thougt he said that he wanted to keep the alloy wheels, but that's ok. I got some nice rims from the scrap w124.

But what about the exaust? I've red about a 7inch downpipe? And the rest of the pipe?

Got some problems with the dieselshop. But i've contacted them. And i found a turbo on ebay but how do i regonise a fake chinese one?

Dont use so big pipe. 4 inch downpipe and 4-3 inch rest of the pipe (it depents how much power you want). I have never seen bigger than 5 inch downpipe and i think its too big. http://www.myholsetturbo.com/images/hol ... ention.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; read that and you learn how to spot fake holset.

Edit. I read your first message again and i noticed that you said that you want 250 horsepower so 3 inch downpipe and rest of pipe is enough. I have 3 inch whole pipe and more than 300 horsepower. But you could make 3,5 inch downpipe just in case.

[Forced_Induction]

3 inches will be more than enough for only 300hp. A 7 inch downpipe will actually be a restriction since you would be forcing the exhaust to significantly expand (slow down) then compress again (speed up) through the smaller exhaust pipes.

The exhaust should be the same diameter, or slightly larger, as the outlet flange of the turbine/wastegate housing.

[Tito]

Thanks guys

The engine is in. The driveshaft fits, but the mount on the gearbox didn't. I've taken the plate under the engine rubber of the w124 and drilled 2 extra holes. Fits beatifully. The enginemounts are done and its 100% level. The radiator has moved to the right a bit to make room for the steeringpump. Tomorrow the elements wil arive I hope.

Everything looks great
I've mounted a temporary exaust manifold for the RDW (to make it road legal here in holland).

[Tito]

Anyone here who knows the pressure of de automatic lifting pump? And is there a continuous flow from the pump? Or is there some safety valve in it? I'm thinking to make the lifting system electric like citroën. For two reasons. 1 the space (it wil touch the radiator and 2nd the orriginal pump (on the camshaft) is seized. Thats's probally the reason why the camshaft broke on the orrigional 2.0 petrol engine

[Tito]

Yay! Got it running!

The first 2 starts it ran like a dream. But yesterday it didn't suddenly run wel. No idle and a lot of white smoke. Weird. Its almost like the pumptiming changed somehow. Getting on it right now

It's getting hot very fast and al lot of metalbanging (don't know the english word for it) out the engine

[Siekkinen]

It could be broken cylinderhead gasket or twisted connecting rod(s). What is your pump timing? How many degrees and before or after OT? Wrong timing could easily broke connecting rods.

[Tito]

Pump timing is set at 24 degrees before tdc. I used the markings on de side of the pump.

The weird thing is it ran perfectly. Nice idle and no smoke. No knocking either. I didn't touch it. And the next day is ran very bad.

By connecting rod's you mean the engine rods under the piston? I doubt.

I found out that the banjo bolt check valve just lets fuel pass. This is suppose te happen at 1.5 bar?

I'll check the inlet fuel pressure. And of that's okay i'll check for bend rods. But i don't think they're bend cause it ran fine.

Glowplugs are good (could mean smoke on a cold engine, not likely to be the problem)

Little bit weird eh?

[Siekkinen]

Pump timing is set at 24 degrees before tdc. I used the markings on de side of the pump.

The weird thing is it ran perfectly. Nice idle and no smoke. No knocking either. I didn't touch it. And the next day is ran very bad.

By connecting rod's you mean the engine rods under the piston? I doubt.

I found out that the banjo bolt check valve just lets fuel pass. This is suppose te happen at 1.5 bar?

I'll check the inlet fuel pressure. And of that's okay i'll check for bend rods. But i don't think they're bend cause it ran fine.

Glowplugs are good (could mean smoke on a cold engine, not likely to be the problem)

Little bit weird eh?

Before tdc? I have used 20 degrees after tdc (with timing mark) with 7mm elements. What do you mean with banjo bolt check valve? Yes I mean those rods under pistons. One guy in finland put 7mm pump to his om602 turbo and it worked fine under a minute and then engine stopped. Four of five rods were bent. it isnt good thing if engine doesnt stay on idle and smokes lot of white smoke. Does it make pressure to cooling system?

[Tito]

No pressure on cooling system.

By banjo check valve i mean the bolt with the little ball in it between the engine and pump. Or is this a one-way valve?

Are you sure after tdc? 48 degrees off timing it could never run that good?

I agree with the bend rod's it's got the same symptons

[Tito]

Oops... It is after tdc.

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM603InjectionPump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well... Ill try tomorrow. If it still doesnt run good the rod's are probally bent i feel like a idiot.

Anyhow now there's no excuse for a 300 turbo engine. I hope to get this one to run fine just for a few miles. So i know i did everything good.

[Siekkinen]

No pressure on cooling system.

By banjo check valve i mean the bolt with the little ball in it between the engine and pump. Or is this a one-way valve?

Are you sure after tdc? 48 degrees off timing it could never run that good?

I agree with the bend rod's it's got the same symptons

I just cant remember that kind of valve or do you mean that valve which is between alda and intake manifold? If you do you can take it off and put straight hose from intake manifold to alda if you wish. Im sure about that 20 after tdc with locking mark of the pump. Its about 16-17 degrees before tdc on real timing.

[Siekkinen]

Oops... It is after tdc.

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM603InjectionPump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well... Ill try tomorrow. If it still doesnt run good the rod's are probally bent i feel like a idiot.

Anyhow now there's no excuse for a 300 turbo engine. I hope to get this one to run fine just for a few miles. So i know i did everything good.

It can be possible to get that engine run well only by timing the pump correctly but if you have bad luck rods have bent.